There is no doubt about it! You can get away with far more in a comic book than you could in a film or in real life! You don’t need a bazillion dollar budget for special effects when you are creating a comic, and you don’t need to try and swoon actors into doing certain things, thereby enticing them with yet again a bazillion bucks! The sky truly is the limit.

But when is good taste the limit?

As you all know, I love to create really elaborate and (I would like to think) really HOT sex scenes in my comics. Nothing pleases me more than seeing how much farther I can push the envelope…within reason, AND within the law of course. Happily, I am not alone in this.

Take for example the art of Oliver Frey, or as he is sometimes called Zack. A few years back, Leyland Publications, the people responsible for the creation of the Meatmen anthologies decided to put together a very special “S&M” issue. Zack’s work was a perfect addition to the contents of that book. Always careful to state the legal age of his characters, his Boytoons generally engage in some of them most torrid sex I’ve ever seen in comics. His work for the “S&M Meatmen” issue was so hot, that it unfortunately caught the attention of the Canadian Customs agents, who promptly seized a shipment destined for Little Sister’s book Emporium here in Vancouver, BC. Little Sister’s has been fighting customs on their rather vague policies regarding what they will seize. It seems that it is simply up to the agent on shift to decide if he or she finds material personally objectionable. Their battle continues to rage on, and I am proud to say that Little Sister’s has done a great deal toward ending this sort of tyranny once and for all.

My point here is simple. We as grown adults should be the only ones who can decide for ourselves, what is acceptable to us…within reason, that is! No kiddy porn please!

Comics are a source of entertainment and fantasy. They are where we go to escape the problems we face in day to day life, and where we sometimes like to go to get turned on! They are a personal preference, and the subject matter depicted is just as subjective to personal taste.

Recently, Class Comics released English language versions of French artist Logan’s Porky#1 and the Pornomicon. The Pornomicon in particular is very HP Lovecraft meets Falcon! Some people find the tentacled sex monsters to be disturbing, but there is a certain dark quality that is so taboo about them, that others find them overwhelmingly exciting. So one man’s pleasure is another’s dislike!

Gengoroh Tagame, one of Japan’s greatest Gay erotic artists is not one to shy away from the extreme. Though personally (and trust me folks, little shocks me!) some of his work has been known to make me flinch, there is no denying that this man is a phenomenal talent. His comics almost always deal with extreme S&M and submission, and my heart goes out to some of his poor characters, who are put through their paces for our viewing pleasure. But as extreme as his depictions are, there is no denying that they are art in its most erotic of overtones.

Still where does one draw the line?

Is sex so deeply rooted into our most basic of instincts that we can on occasion cross over to those dark reaches within us, and bask in them completely and fully? And if that is the case, do we run the risk of never being able to return from there?

End of part 1 – continued this afternoon!


  1. Hello Patrick,

    You started a very interesting topic here: I know Gengoroh Tagame for quite some time now and I’m happy that it wasn’t me who started this discussion because – awkwardly enough – I sometimes feel guilty for liking his stuff. There is

    Yes, it’s true: We – as grown adults – should be allowed to choose for ourselves. Censorship is a good place to start a dictatorship. I’m dead serious here.
    Of course, there is stuff that makes me want to puke, but who am I to take this from other adults?
    Sure, there is stuff that should definitely NOT be published (as You said – kiddie porn is one of today’s darkest shadows and should be banned from the universe). But, still, my argument stands: We as grown-ups should always be allowed to choose for ourselves.

    As I said: Tagames work made me feel guilty when I first kinda discovered it. But after quite some time, I caught myself surfing his website over and over again. I thought “Gee, there MUST be more to his stuff. Don’t be a hipocryte, admit it: You like it.” And I did.

    So, my point is: I really, really love rough sex – being depicted in artful comic books, like Tagames stuff, Logans stuff, and – of course, gee! – Your stuff, Patrick. There is something very, very sexy, seeing a “Hero in Peril” (sic!) like Cam, for example.

    Thanks for posting this great topic, Patrick!
    All the best – love & peace.

  2. MJR Charlie says

    Hi Patrick.

    I totally agree with what your saying, the whole subject of keeping adult themes within the spectrum of porn.
    I shocks me sometimes at the level that people experiment with with things like yaoi and gay animations and comics. It opens a world more diverse to someones imagination then any other thing.

    I have come across some of Gengoroh Tagame’s work, and it too made me sick to my stomach, anyone who finds sexual desires in drawings of people having their arms and legs cut off and blood and gore, they must be screwed up in the head.

    Now, the Pornomicon, I loved that I finally got ahold of a copy, but I too found it rather dark, the whole tentical rape by the demon thing seemed rather extreme, also the theme of it did lay in a religous factor of sodimites and having gay sex will have you burn in hell for it, very twisted.

    Thats why I love your comics so much, your characters are fun, and the sex in your work is fantastic, without crossing a line of taste in a porno sense of the word. The most s&m thing I’ve seen you do is the Jon Daisy and Diablo thing, which I don’t think is to hard, it makes for an intresting story.

    Kiddie porn, however, this makes me remember something. Obviously in drawings and animation, you can invent anything you want. My person fav catagory is often Furries, hairy heros like Beast for x-men or werewolf characters, that sort… not bestiality like a lot of people asume.
    I used to be a member of the Y! Gallery, and I sent some of my ‘furry’ work to them. Then one day they turned around and said they were stopping all furry artists from posting on their site, all furry art was banned.
    I took notice of the fact that they banned furries from the site, but didn’t do anything of the artists who put up underaged characters, like really young characters from comics and games and cartoons in sexual drawings. I asked why, they said “Sorry, we can’t do anything about that”.

    Thats what I love about your work Patrick, I can always count of it to be in the right frame of mind, all your guys are grown men, not underaged kids. Thank you for being so considarate!

  3. Charvolth says

    An interesting view of two slippery slopes, we as adults should have as much freedom as possible in regards to entertainment as long as it does not inpinge on the rights of others. If not for the internet I wouldn’t have discovered a lot of things I found sexually appealing. I enjoy seeing some rough sex on occasion, nothing too extreme.
    The issue of child porn is obviously a hot topic, I remember a few ears ago when issues of Frank Thorne’s Angel of Darkness were seized by police, and was called child porn. That label was very dubious at best, that was a weird series towards the end. Obviously child porn should be illegal as even the smallest percentage of the target audience would probably have few compunctions of connecting their fantasies to reality, and that is not worth the risk.
    The point that you made was that the decision was made by the discretion of a customs agent in regards to the issues of meatmen, all you need is one wacked out bible thumper, and they can interpret almost anything as pornographic.

  4. Hey Patrick!

    WOW! This is really something different. I love reading other people’s views on “Censorship.” And I agree with what you wrote.

    As adults, we (should) have the right to view what we feel is best for us to look at, if we don’t like it, we don’t look at it. I believe parent’s should also have more control as to what their children look at over the internet by using firewalls and other programs available on the market to protect children from this. I will explain more about this when I have read the second part to Extreme Sex, as I have perfect examples of things that I have witnessed myself, though parent’s were at fault.

    No one should feel guilty about looking at artwork, porn, performance artists who perform such acts. Humans have a natural curiosity and curiosity is a great thing. Sex comes in many forms and between two consenting adults or two people who love each other, it is a beautiful thing, even though some of it may look barbarick (I think I spelt that right.)

    One thing that I know for a fact is, in porno movies of guy’s who get fisted, and done over by dildo’s that resemble an elephant’s trunk are told by the director to scream in agony and make as much noise as possible,(this is meant to get the viewer more arroused.) Again I know this for a fact. Thus,this kind of direction from porn producer’s makes the act look violent and that’s where censcorship kicks in.

    I love this kind of work and if it’s done right, it can be very sensual and almost romantic to see another be as close to another as possible, if it’s done in poor and violent taste, without the consent of the passive out of the two adults, it’s wrong.

    As for being done over by a creature with multiple willy wangs! All I can say is, “BRING IT ON!” I’ll never have to leave the house again! LOL!

    Looking forward to part two!

    Licks & Chews!

  5. Hmmm… I must agree with you, Patrick; I’m a hopeless romantic at heart. I prefer to depict people in relationships, rather than anonymous gang bangs. I still believe that love is an important ingredient that makes sex so hot.

    With that said, I especially like drawing/writing characters who are in love, but like to be adventurous as well. Nothing wrong with couples trying new things! Who knows, it might be fun. And of course, on some occasions, I like to draw/write more violent or extreme subject matter. It’s a harmless way for me to explore the darker side of my psyche.

    I must say, I’m very against censorship. Here’s where I play devil’s advocate. Even though I find shotacon (drawn kiddie porn) horrible and distasteful and traumatic and retina-searing and I never, ever want to see it, EVER, should it really be outlawed? No children are being harmed when someone is drawing this kind of artwork. I know it’s illegal in Canada, and if it were made illegal in the U.S. again I sure as hell wouldn’t cry about it… but there’s that whole slippery slope argument. If you censor shotacon, does that mean you can censor furry too, since many “furs” resemble animals to a strong degree and bestiality is illegal in many states? Can you censor comics with characters using toys or dildoes because dildoes are illegal in Texas and Pennsylvania? As long as no children are being harmed, is shotacon really that bad, or do we really need to be the Thought Police and make sure no one even thinks about having sex with underage characters?

    Many YAOI books feature graphic sex between characters who are underage. Even here in the U.S., publishers of OEL yaoi are printing books with underage characters, depicting graphic sex between characters indistinguishable from prepubescent boys. There is a large market for this material; these books sell like hotcakes. Just because it’s not “politically correct”, do we have a right to outlaw it?

    Just a quick note: Readers, please don’t confuse actual censorship with TOS changes on privately owned websites such as Y!Gallery. I’m aware of the furry and shota controversy on that site and it’s part of the reason why I left the staff.

    We should be thankful that comic art is not governed in the same way that photographic pornography is. We can, indeed, get away with more experimental and extreme material. With luck, we’ll ride out the current conservative trend relatively unscathed, while traditional pornographers scramble madly to stay in business.

    With all that said, I do have very strong beliefs and my own screwed-up set of morals. I’m a Libertarian and I feel I’m entitled to live my life the way I feel comfortable. I will never draw shotacon, bestiality, or furry, because it’s against my beliefs; however, I have, and will in the future, experiment with bondage, violence, rape, and even snuff themes in my artwork, and I’m happy that I have the freedom to do so.

    And my characters will be of legal age. You have my word.

  6. Good morning Phrog, Charlie, Charvolth, Manny and Spubba…

    HOLY CRAP! I never ever dreamed this issue would invite such fascinating comments! Thank you all for posting.

    Essentially, I think it is important to live and let live, and to be respectful of our neighbors’ right to choose. I will tolerate almost ANYTHING, except child pornography and beastiality. If that makes me a hypocrite, I can live with that! LOL!!!

    The Furry issue is an interesting one. I do not actually see anything wrong with Furrys…even though I don’t necessarily get it! In season 4 on CSI, they did an episode on Furries and delved a little more deeply into people who actually like to dress up as animal/human hybrids. By the end of the episode, I still didn’t get it…but who am I to judge.

    Some have called Cam and my other Felinoids “Furries”, and I’m gonna step in right now and tell you that THAT IS NOT THE CASE! So far as I am concerned, Cam is an alien with certain feline traits… kinda the way humans have certain ape-like traits.

    Meanwhile, I think you all make fantastic points. Some of you are open to people enjoying what they enjoy, and some of you are of the mind that amputated men being ripped to shred and jerked off all at once is kinda icky and twisted… well, although I applause the talent evident in the depiction, it’s subject matter is also perhaps a wee bit distasteful, even to me!

    But one thing is for certain, censorship is JUST NOT RIGHT! And Spubba, you are completely correct…where do we draw the line? I know that I appreciate being able to draw what I do, and how I please to do so, every single day of my life. I don’t think anyone has the right to come along and suddenly prevent me from drawing it just because they disapprove of the subject matter I depict.

    Charvolth, you are correct that the internet has been an amazing way to discover new and wilder things. It is a bottomless wealth of material, and ever day can expose us to wonderful new stuff. Sadly, the opposite can also be said. But I guess, that’s been my point all along. We as adults should have the right to choose… so why do I still feel like a hypocrite?

    Thank you all again for your wonderful thoughts and comments.

    Much love to you all,
    Patrick XOXOX

  7. Oliver Frey says

    Nice comments about my art, but a pity I don’t get a credit for the use of one of my old images on the cover of the mag.

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